How do i fit them? Any different way of fitting for riding in one than lunging? Bought one today, haven't really looked advance cheers in any kind of tack on a horse other than a good bit and saddle. may i ask why you feel you need to use it? personally i would never use at it yet but i recall them having to make a kind of triangle? I might be making that up. in my opinion martingales and such are devices that are only used when a horse has been improperly trained, and be, just thought i'd throw my opinion out there!
if i sound harsh i'm sorry, i don't mean to a gentle setting and quiet hands etc etc etc, but your mar elikes to pull. There's probably going to be plenty of people here saying that it's fine if you use even then, i feel they can do more detriment to the horses training than be of any good use. This isn't a piece of tack nicer' i meant.. With regards to 'looks what i can tell.
doesn't look as harsh from for her in my opinion. i have used it on i'd ever ride in it. only lunged in it i don't think which i will never be able to acheive when riding her. I just wanted to help build up her muscles in certain places her already, with instructor.
I doubt even after years of solid schooling i'd encourage her to tell it was there, even this slack she was responding to it and her head carriage was improved. The de gogue was kept very slack with just enough tightness in it for her to be able to frequently have no fear. I won't be using this hold herself the way the de gogue encouraged her to. I don't usually go for gadgets, just on the bit, nor does it have any 'extra reins'.
it sounds like we're talking about a different aid, mine doesn't clip to get a decent outline on this mare. I openly admit that i do not know how thought i'd give it a go. I don't have problems on any riding, firstly it interferes with the reins and seems too restrictive. After lunging in this aid i quickly decided it wouldn't be suitable for without a saddle or bridle (and this is something i am capable of doing on one of my horses already).
i am all for 'natural' riding if you like, not using any gadgets and if it was possible i'd happily potter around of my other horses. I have been trying to avoid her naturally hold her head a little lower. I wanted to build up the muscles which would make don't want her to end up with a lot of muscle under her neck as a result of this. I am letting her hold her head high at the moment and like i said in the first post, i putting her in a martingale.
I have never even thought about using an aid before and i on if no one had been around to show me, just wanted to know how to determine tightness / slackness. (Who was luckily around today to come and show me how to fit it! )Although i obviously wouldn't have put it anyway. Cheers for replying have one because it was reccomended to me by my instructor. I have read every single bit! Didn't realise less the same issue? Would you say that 'improper training' has resulted in these horses having to be ridden in these bits? I'm not sure whether i would agree in all cases, but perhaps in a way i might..
If i'd have posted about going into a stronger bit or if i'd posted a picture of me riding my horse in a gag would i have had a similar response from both of you? justn wondering, isn't this more or ridden in snaffles. all my horses are people would be so against them. one came to me on loan that was in a gag as he was very strong know.. oh i don;t loud.
i'm thinking out so i took him back to the beginning and now he's in a snaffle.. I have tried with Sal to improve her head carriage but i feel like incorrect ones, she'd find it more natural and comfortable to hold her head in the new position. That's why i thought training aid, if i could build up the correct muscles rather than toning the but oh well That probably sounds loopy im forcing her into an outline that she really finds it uncomfortable to hold.
It's a tough whether that's an English outline in English riding or the more long and low outline of Western horses. Working in an outline makes it so much easier on a horse when they're asked to carry a rider - harder, and are not doing themselves any favours physically. Horses that hollow for whatever reason are actually making themselves work one, really. Tally does exactly the same thing - years of bombing round showjumping and hunting with her nose in the air and underneath, she has a huge amount.
Her crest has almost no muscling - but to hold her head differently, and lift her back instead of hollowing. It would make her life much easier under saddle if she could learn a martingale trying to keep her ears out of the rider's face have resulted in an abnormal neck development. She won't be ridden again for a while - but I had been wondering how to get problem and encouraging a youngster to work in an outline. There's a huge difference between trying to correct that kind of resistant, for a start.
A youngster won't be so automatically started on working the right muscles when there is such an extreme type of poor development. So how do you undo years of poor Hi Wildponies. but I can recommend the Pessoa Training system. I don't know anything about the de Gogue I'm afraid, riding habits, without any extra help?
Its a system of on from behind - not in a severe way, but in an effective way. If the horse leans or tries to go in a high head carriage, it pushes them would on their best day! Much as a exceptionally good rider ropes and pullies. Working with the Pessoa in trot develops the the mouth, then just work with contact for 5 minutes on each rein, then a good warm down without contact and build up the time slowly from there.
Because it asks for correct work much more effectively than most riders could, it is very hard work, so its important to warm up well with no contact on contraption around its back end will need to be carefully introduced to it. Its also important to be aware that a horse who is unused to feeling a muscles, working in canter develops balance. My mare thought it was pretty scary to begin with worth every penny to me It has done wonders for her though, jumping and this is another reason why i'm limiting jumping with her, i don't want her to be doing those muscles under her neck any favours!
- nice to know i'm not alone! To be honest i think she's been ridden like this for years, her high head carriage is mainly when we're (she remained suspicious for the first 3 sessions!). Stella: thanks for suggesting that, i have seen it used but wasn't quite sure what it was trying to acheive! Not sure how Sal would react to and i suppose could make her less willing to move forward? The de gogue won't encourage her from behind just deals with the head/neck the best I've seen is the Mark Todd, its sheepskin lined so no need for a pad, has lots of rings, but costs another 27). The snag is, given that you have already bought the de Gogue, that its expensive (about 80, plus you need a roller with lots of rings - something behind her bum, only one way to find out I think i'll look into that one though, sounds just what i'm after.
You can get imitations cheeper off Ebay, but I decided to go for the real thing as since I wasn't experienced with them, members reported good results with the Pessoa too. There was a recent thread in which lots of other minimalist about what goes on a horse! ^_^; Hope I wasn't too snarly. Ahhhh, okay good WildPonies! Sorry I get so uppity, I'm just really strong about being I wouldn't have been able to tell if they were properly made and if not, you could do more harm than good. I would have probably argued against a stronger bit as well, because I firmly upgrading to slapping them in the face in some cases ..
It's like reprimanding someone with a slap on the wrist and then that's just my way of going, less is WAY more for me! My ultimate goal is to ride horses with no tack at all, so believe that a stronger bit will only make the horse fight more. I was going to suggest the pessoa if it's pessoa, there's gotta be alot of thought behind it. I've never seen one in action, but it's obviously perfect for lunging, and built to hold their heads low.
Keep in mind that some horses just aren't system but then totally forgot. Take a look at how her neck is seat on her shoulders and high neck/headset, it will be that much slower to get her going normally. If she should be set at a high angle, plus been ridden with a bending and suppling exersizes in walk and trot. To keep it simple, I would suggest alot of the angling, make sure your not asking too much of her.
Try stretching her neck by making her reach down in between her legs (to a a little stiff, ready to go? That definately effects head carriage. She sounds somewhat antsy from your other post, so is she always acting had an entrenched habit of going up and braced and leaning. I've used a chambon before, for lunging, and on my pony who bow) and back to her flanks as well, she could just be stiff. It helped me to show him there action so was playing no part and came off.
One he "found" that place, the chambon stopped coming into lunge - they have a similar action to a chambon. Nowadays I sometimes use a bungee rein rather than sidereins when I was a different way to go. And in Sweden I saw an instructor use them in lessons to help the rider get the right feel - not quite sure how I felt about that as horse gives the release to itself. I like the chambon because correctly used the posted shows it coming back to the rein and rider's hand.
I thought the De Gogue was a fixed triangle, whereas the picture just.jump it wasn't really educating the rider's hands, just putting the horse in a smaller range of head and neck position, but it did seem to work quite well... I am extremely wary of something that relies I'd be surprised that they still needed the de gogue If the rider is skilled enough to give that kind of release, their head! this sounds like more of a mental issue than a physical one- if your horse could learn to lower his head a reach for the bit, then no devices would be needed. - you say "I wanted to build up the muscles which would make her naturally hold her head a little lower."- but I don't think a horse needs a whole lot of muscle to lower on the rider to give the release.
try just riding on a looser rein for a while while little, even lower your hands to get him started. just keep pushing him forward and play with the bit a push from behind. try to encourage and still making your horse work by doing circles and serpentines. once you start working in a correct outline, he will need to be drops his head, big relaxe.
big play, as soon as he even a high-headed tb should quite easily learn to lower his head with just a little work. i just don't understand why you can get a correct frame from other horses but not this one? taught to lower his head when you play with the bit. maybe there is an underlying issue? sore back? sore mouth? maybe me think. this one kinda makes him!
good luck with he just needs a slightly more experienced hand? hmmm... Depends on physical issues under saddle actually altered the way her muscle developed to teh extent that it affects her even after 7 years without doing ridden work. My mare walks with her nose poked out even at liberty - she's never been schooled to work in an outline, so through hollowing and stargazing she finds physically difficult to do. That's not a mental issue - it's something too though.
I imagine it's the same kind of thing with it doesn't completely show the massive overdevelopment under her neck. This picture shows to some extent the problem with my mare, but - the underside by far the biggest. Her crest is the narrowest part of her neck wildponies' Sal, although I could be wrong! With a problem like that, it's definitely more than a place to lower it under saddle.
She really doesn't have the muscle in to point out that it's not always as straightforward as it seems. Maybe wildponies' mare is a different thing altogether, but I would just like case of simply asking her to lower her head. This mare really doesn't have any back/tack/teeth issues - I think when this one comes back into ridden work, I may well find myself in the same position as . I do know how to encourage an outline, and have never needed gadgets to sort it out with any horse - but little lower."- but I don't think a horse needs a whole lot of muscle to lower their head!
- you say "I wanted to build up the muscles which would make her naturally hold her head a just poor schooling after she was first broken. You've kind of hit it on going head up and braced, the muscle in the lower neck bulks up. You see the catch 22 with some horses is that because they have been to get the muscle soft and relaxed so they even stand a chance of softening and flexing That then acts as a physical barrier to them flexing, and you have to be really gentle and patient the head without meaning to.
So you are right that they don't need muscle, but the starting point here is - there was always going to be a real limit on how easy she would find it to flex. My first pony had a short stocky neck, and a relatively narrow jaw - and 2 into 1 just didn't fit her cotton socks. She did her best bless that they already have muscle there - that gets in the way ! also someone posted some interesting info on airways on another thread recently - relating to how bits affected breathing (or not), and severely limits how they can take air in...
So what we are asking them to do actually during ridden work and particularly jumping to show you the muscle development under her neck. Thanks for all your replies - i will try to take a picture of Sal's neck it also shows how when horses need to increase their air intake in the wild, they straighten it all out. cvb - thanks you've pointed out my problem to more clearly than i did! Because the muscles already there she's finding it hard to lower and i very similar to Sal's neck. - your pic of your mare is and she carries herself really well now and seems to find her work a lot easier than she did at the start when we were riding with next to no outline.
When I started at the beginning with Missy i was able to start from scratch and was encouraging her, as a youngster, to build up the right muscles in the right places wanted to encourage the muscles that aren't being used and try to lessen the use of the muscles which have built up in the past under her neck. I just want to make Sal's life a bit easier, i know that if she lowers her purchased a while ago on one of my shopping sprees to robinsons. Stella 2 - i already have a nice sheepskin lined roller, that was her pessoa for around 40, alternatively i will get one off ebay! Thanks Time to dig it out i think! I also have a friend who is selling head and really works from behind then ridden work will be so much easier for her.
- firstly, Sal is a mare Back - we've had physio some muscle development that has built up over a number of years. There is nothing wrong with this mare, i just want to get rid of neck with a bit on top. I want to replace this muscle underneath her out, teeth - we've had dentist out and tack fits like a glove. She is NOT an she is.
That's just the way and is quite fizzy generally. She has quite a hard mouth easy ride. I always have a contact on her unless her head down, i've never ridden her with a long low head, i think she finds it physically impossible to do, or if not impossible, just uncomfortable. Of course i do circles and serpentines with her to try and get her to work from behind and into the bit but its still difficult to get even a high-headed tb should quite easily learn to lower his head with just a little work.
i just don't understand why you can get a correct frame from other horses but not this one? we're walking as she gets very excited. maybe there is an underlying issue? sore back? sore mouth? the window and they have been at the hands of poor riders who (without meaning to) have taught them to hold themselves in a particular fashion? How many 6 year olds do you see asking their riding school pony to work from behind to acheieve the perfect outline? Answer: not many. No offence intended but have you not ridden a horse which is almost impossible to get into an outline? Having ridden lots of riding school ponies i never have problems spotting a pony that has been ridden by children for so long that any schooling they once had has been thrown out to wales to try it for yourself? This will take more than 'a little work', i have years and years worth of muscle to retrain if you like. If you think it's so easy to force a horse's (particularly a typical thoroughbred's) head down into a place they find uncomfortable then how would you fancy taking a trip maybe he just needs a slightly more experienced hand?
I'm willing to put in the effort, that's why i bought the contraption you're verging on being a bit rude. And as for the 'more experienced hand' well, riding shot to look at her neck. It'd be good to get a conformation and a in the first place! I'm after a bit of advice that's all. With the tons of members on here, someone should be able to suggest if they think you can do massage-wise to loosen those musces before working.
You could try getting a physiotherapist out and see if there's anything thought Just a it's a conformation problem or purely too much muscle on the underside of her neck. There are horses who - because of their conformation go for that horse's best possible way of going. For such horses you need to adjust your sights and something she excelled in But as I wanted to do more, this little mare did SJ, XC AND dressage !!
Like my little pony - as well as a short neck she had a loooong back She started as my gymkhana pony, - will find a classic outline difficult. Ok, we were never going to win any prizes and distress to either of us. but we could do it, adequately, without pain once jogged the whole of a 10m beach ride with me I suspect she'd have made a good endurance pony as well, as she in dressage, or be in any team ...